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Transcript

Kevin: Hey all my noobs, this is Kevin. Before we start the show, I just wanted to give a quick reminder. If you haven't already, please submit a review on iTunes for us. It really helps other listeners find the show. Thank you. And now, on with the show. Hey Michelle, I got a story for you.

Michelle: Do you? Okay, cool. What's it about?

Kevin: Okay, it's story time here on Nutrition for Noobs. So first off, welcome everyone to Nutrition for Noobs. And I just wanted to tell a story today about something that just happened to me this afternoon. So it's fresh on my mind.

Michelle: Cool.

Kevin: So I wanted to buy some specialty Asian noodles for some recipes that I found online that I wanted to try. So I went to a local supermarket that has tons and tons of variety. And I noticed something about myself that normally when I go shopping, I'm kind of on autopilot. I buy the same things. I just know what I want and I get it. So when I'm looking for something different, I'm much more aware of and more tentative. So I found what I thought were the noodles I wanted. They looked amazing. They looked delicious, nice and fresh, blah, blah, blah. And I was just putting them into my basket when something just inside said, oh, just check the nutrition. I just turned to over the nutrition and read the label. So Michelle, I want you to guess one serving of hand-pulled noodles. How much sodium, percentage of your daily intake, do you think one serving of hand-pulled noodles were of this one brand that I found?

Michelle: Gosh, okay, I'm going to say like 20%, no?

Kevin: 42%.

Michelle: Good Lord.

Kevin: I thought it was a typo. I was like, is that 4.2? Because they're just noodles. They're just like regular noodles.

Michelle: These are noodles that are going to survive the zombie apocalypse.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I started looking at a few other brands because again, I didn't know these brands. And they were all similar, like 40, 38, 44. I was shocked. And I thought, oh, maybe that's the standard. Finally, I found one. And I found a brand that was 5%.

Michelle: Normal.

Kevin: Which in my mind is like normal. Like you use a little bit of salt when you're making noodles. And I was just astounded that there could be eight times as much salt in the exact same product. And then I was also buying rice paper wrappers. And again, not something I buy every day. One serving of rice paper wrappers, 26%, a quarter of your daily sodium intake.

Michelle: Wow. And those are like literally rice paper and not like seaweed.

Kevin: Yeah, no, it's just rice paper that you put in water to make a little softer.

Michelle: Dang, no wonder that sushi is so tasty.

Kevin: Well, no. So then I, again, I started looking at brands and I, you know, I saw 22, 26, blah, blah, blah. Finally, I found one, 4%.

Michelle: Wow.

Kevin: So it was just astounding how the different brands could be so radically different with sodium. And I guess the take home is like, if you're not sure of the product, you should read the label.

Michelle: Turn it over. You know, that's such a great example because like you've perfectly picked two items that I wouldn't even be inclined to turn the label over on that because it's like a single ingredient. It's not like your noodles, right? You don't really think of your noodles as being an offensive source of sugar, salt or fat.

Kevin: Yeah. With almost like half of your daily sodium intake. Like I was shocked. It was insane.

Michelle: Wow.

Kevin: So the lesson is read the labels.

Michelle: Read your labels, people. You know, it reminds me of that story. We'd be talking to the one tea blending organization I was dealing with when I wanted to know why is this tea so sweet? I'm not seeing anything in the ingredient list that explains why this tea is so sweet. There's got to be something artificial. They were like, no, no, no. It doesn't. I'm like, what? I need to see the ingredients. I need to know. And they're like, why do you care so much? And I said, because I'm going to put it in my mouth. Don't you think I should know what I'm putting in my mouth? Exactly. I guess nobody had ever asked that before. But yeah, if you're putting it in your mouth, you should know what it is.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly. Rule number one.

Michelle: Wow. Well, what a conscious consumer you are. I'm so proud. I'm tearing up.

Kevin: I honestly don't know what it was. that made me turn over the wrapper and look at the nutrition. And I'm so glad that I did because that brand I was going to buy, again, they looked amazing, but I was just floored by the amount of sodium.

Michelle: You're awesome. You're awesome. That's cool. Well, you know, this is a good segue because I got... Is it? Yeah, well, you know, I circulate out there and people message me and I'm getting asked because the McVeggie launched in Canada last month.

Kevin: Yes. Yes, I heard about that.

Michelle: And there's people asking, Oh, so like, what do you think of the McVeggie? Is it like better? And just being asked in general, because we talk about, you know, making your plate plant predominant and minimizing or eliminating processed foods and ultra processed foods and all the great stuff that we went over about, you know, group one, carcinogens, et cetera. Right. And I know that barbecue season is nearly over here. But, you know, getting asked, you know, can I have a veggie burger? And so, OK, my first answer is you can have whatever you want.

Kevin: You don't need Michelle's permission to eat.

Michelle: I'm not your food police. But however, what you're asking me is, is it a good choice or is it a reasonable choice or how does this fit into a well-planned diet? Then, like, yeah, you can totally enjoy a veggie burger. I definitely enjoy a veggie burger. So anyway, of course. So then the question, you know, they're like, well, which one? What do you recommend? What do you have? And so, you know, before like what I do randomly in my own diet is not necessarily the same thing sometimes when I'm trying to give a well-formed answer, because I'm a consumer like everybody else. You know, if we happen to be on vacation or we're in a nice restaurant, there's limited options on the menu. I'm with some friends, you know, that that's the one thing you can almost always count on. Like they'll have a veggie burger of some sort most places. Right. And then, you know, we not too often, but occasionally we make them at home. And, and I'll be honest, like over like with all of the food innovations that we've seen in the last decade, what we used to stock in our freezer as a veggie burger is different than what we have now because there's so many more options. So the end game for me would be at the end of the day, if I had my draw, this is my very favorite. And I think the best choice is always a really good black bean burger. I have yet to find any veggie burger, plant-based meat alternative or anything that tastes as delicious as a really good black bean burger. But there's a lot of choice out there, which is a really great thing on one hand, but then it makes consumer confusion all over again, just in a different place. So, Kevin, I went down another rabbit hole.

Kevin: What? You go down a rabbit hole? Never. You never do that, Michelle.

Michelle: So, so I just want to preface this by saying, you know, nothing that I'm going to talk about here today has been verified by an epidemiologist or a statistician, but I did use all of the, you know, the resources at my disposable. I checked a bunch of references and I pulled up a bunch of numbers that I think make a reasonable comparison between various different veggie burger options. And then I fed all of the information into AI to consolidate it so that I could look at it in a number of different ways.

Kevin: And it just made up whatever answers it wanted, I'm sure.

Michelle: I was, I was checking to make sure that AI didn't change anything or go in any crazy direction. So I did check for reasonableness. So, so there's, there's no perfection here, but I mean, it's directional. This is nutrition for noobs. Yeah. We're just kind of looking for an idea. And the answers I got didn't surprise me. It's, it's, well, actually that's not true. The, some of the sodium answers very much surprised me. I compared a whole bunch of different things in two of my charts here. It's just slightly different. So bear with me, but I started out with the question. Have you tried the McVeggie? No, I have not tried the McVeggie.

Kevin: And just to clarify for our listeners, just in case they haven't heard of this or whatever, this is the vegetarian burger offered by the chain McDonald's just in case it's not in your area or something. I'm sure most people could figure out by the name, but just in case I wanted to level set.

Michelle: Yeah. So from everything that I I've read, and I mean, there's tons of marketing around this, so I'm getting it marketed to me all over the place and that I can go down the street and there's a McDonald's down the street from our neighborhood. They consciously tried to make, I'm going to put quote unquote healthier option on their menu based on consumer demand, but they were consciously staying away from the plant based meat alternatives. So they weren't trying to use beyond or impossible or or something like it. Right. Okay.

Kevin: One of the established ones.

Michelle: So so that that's a good thing on one hand. First of all, I just want to applaud the public and for making the demand for this.

Kevin: Yeah.

Michelle: That because if that demand for healthier options, more real food plant options is actually hitting the P&L of a company like McDonald's, that's that's pretty power. That shows you the power of the consumer. Right. But and and they'll take advantage of that marketing. I mean, not to slight the company in any way. Any company does this. Any company is going to market to their best advantage. Right. Because it's all about it's all about demand.

Kevin: Yeah.

Michelle: Right. You've made this investment in R&D. You want to pay off that investment and you want it to you want to reward your shareholders. That's just how business works. So I don't hold any ill will against McDonald's for doing that. So they will emphasize all of the goodness of the ingredients that go into this McVeggie. But a consumer has to be savvy and not mistaken that for the idea that this is a healthy food because it is not like it.

Kevin: Right. So but but I guess I you know, I guess to play devil's advocate for just a moment. I'm guessing it's healthy or than a lot of their meat based options on their menu. So if you're just if you're in a McDonald's vacuum and that's the only place you could eat and you're forced to you're better off. It's like the lesser of two evils. You're better off with this McVeggie than you are with like a Big Mac.

Michelle: I agree with you, but my language would be slightly different in that. I wouldn't call it healthier. I would call it less harmful.

Kevin: Okay, sure. Same. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's fair. That's fair. I think I think when I said the lesser of two evils, that kind of covered it off. But yeah, no, totally. I get it.

Michelle: So it's a it's a sandwich patty of the McVeggie. Unlike the other processed plant based meat alternatives is made of carrots, green beans, zucchini, peas, soybeans, broccoli and corn, along with seasoning. And then it also says the standard sandwich includes this patty on a toasted sesame seed bun, which they are known for, with shredded lettuce, creamy mayonnaise style sauce, while a spicy habanero version substitutes a habanero, a traditional habanero sauce. So that all sounds really good, right?

Kevin: That sounds so you've got all your veggies, you've got carrots and broccoli, like it sounds amazing.

Michelle: It's it sounds really good when it's put in those terms. However, we we know that the McVeggie when we actually break down the nutrition information compared to other plant based alternatives, it's among the highest in total calories and just to level set like I compared it to other fast food chain veggie burger options. I also compared it to the Beyond Meat option, kind of after the fact, I compared it to the Impossible just to check on that because I think somebody I know uses Impossible Burgers.

Kevin: Who could that be? I don't know.

Michelle: And then I wanted to compare and see what what does it look like in terms of these resulting nutrition facts? If I was to make that burger at home, like based on the best available data, and we have like there's chronometer, there's a lot of other there's a lot of good sources out there where we can get data on, you know, on average. Or, you know, if you can look at various different recipes for making your own homemade veggie burger, you make your own black bean burger, like we can kind of directionally take a look at what what would that look like if we made our own? Because I think I think that's the important alternative, right? Because convenience is a huge factor. And sometimes, you know, you're just grabbing whatever is convenient. But when if you like to cook or you like to experiment, and it doesn't have to be that convenient, what advantage is conferred by making our own? So that was my query. And so the McVeggie has very high sodium, but believe it or not, not the highest.

Kevin: Wow.

Michelle: 710 milligrams of sodium. That's a lot.

Kevin: But those are like my noodles.

Michelle: Yeah, yeah, but it's but they're not. But believe it or not, not the highest. The A&W veggie burger was way higher. Now, one source says that the A&W veggie burger has 1340 milligrams of sodium and a different source says that it has 1418 grams of sodium.

Kevin: Wow. That's like when you take the top off the salt shaker and you pour the entire salt shaker onto your food.

Michelle: That's more than more than half of the of the recommended daily intake of sodium. Wow. So that would be just about it.

Kevin: Like and that's just in one sandwich.

Michelle: Once one sandwich. Yeah, for sure. So the McVeggie, though, was the highest in fat, the highest in carbohydrate, the lowest in protein for the people that, you know, worried about their protein. Right. So, I mean, so is it it's misleading when you see that list of ingredients and you think, oh, this is actually going to be kind of decent.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: But when you actually break that down.

Kevin: It's the seasonings where you've got the salt. It's the creamy mayonnaise like dressing or whatever you called it.

Michelle: And this is this has always been the story. Right. It's not the carrots fault. It's it's all the other shit that we put on it.

Kevin: It's how it's been processed together to make the whole. Yeah. And it's very, very, very changed, which is the entire concept of ultra processed. It's no longer a carrot and it's barely recognizable as carrots matter anymore. It's now an entirely different creature.

Michelle: Exactly. Now, what I found curious. So just going back to the A&W veggie burger.

Kevin: Mm hmm. Yeah. Super salty.

Michelle: I'm not I'm I don't understand what their food scientists were after, but there seems to be a relationship with the fact that the A&W veggie burger has the highest sodium of all the ones that I compared. But it also is the highest in protein. So whatever whatever they're doing to that formulation to boost the protein content, it must be correlating to an increase of sodium, either because of whatever ingredient they're using or maybe it's to cover up taste. I don't know.

Kevin: It's either for the taste or their source of protein. Plant protein happens to be very salty.

Michelle: Yeah. One or two.

Kevin: Interesting.

Michelle: Yeah. I don't know. And and it's, you know, compared to the McVeggie, the A&W veggie is lower in fat. They're all actually very similar in the amount of saturated fat. Now, the saturated fat as as a percentage, like there's only it's a, you know, not not even a quarter of the total fat. Now, that's one of the gains of of them using plant proteins as opposed to animal proteins, because it's the animal proteins that make them so high in saturated fat. Right. So they are still using a lot of oil, a lot of fat sources, but there's fewer saturated fat sources. So that's one of the things that makes it less harmful.

Kevin: Right. And I think part of that also might just be the cooking. I'm not sure about A&W, but like McDonald's fries their burgers and I believe A&W also fries their burgers. So also, if you cook the burger, the plant based burger over a grill, it might be a little bit less because you wouldn't be adding, you know, the oil from the from the the frying.

Michelle: Right.

Kevin: Potentially. I don't know.

Michelle: Yeah, I think when I was pulling data on A&W, too, like I've got I've got different numbers for carbohydrate. I'm just going to be transparent to the audience. I think it depends whether you have an American recipe or a Canadian recipe. I don't I don't think the products are identical because one source says that the A&W burger has 47 grams of carbs, which is not that far off of McVeggies, which is 55 grams of carbs. And then a different source says the A&W veggie burger has 21 grams of carbs. So I can't account for that. As you know, I'm not that fussed about carbs. I'm more fussed about the quality of your carbs. And I don't think any of us is going to pick up one of these burgers and protest that we're having quality food anyway. So I think that ship's already sailed. You've already made a choice.

Kevin: You made that choice when you paid for this.

Michelle: Exactly. Now, where things got a little bit interesting for me was if you're going to go to one of these outlets, it looks like Burger King is the winner.

Kevin: All hail the king.

Michelle: No. So compared to on average, you know, close to 500 calories, the Burger King version veggie burger is 331 calories. So lower in calories, lower in fat, around 8.2 grams of fat in a Burger King veggie burger. But half of that is saturated fat. So the ratio like it's lower in fat altogether. But the ratio between saturated fat and other fats is is over 50 percent saturated fat. Higher in carbohydrate. That could be to do with the difference of the bun. I'm not sure. And it could also be, you know, plants are carbohydrates. So maybe they have more lettuce. I don't know.

Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Their particular recipe for their patty or something.

Michelle: Yeah, it's a little bit higher in fiber. It's lower in protein and but also about on par in terms of sodium with the with the McVeggie. So not as high in sodium as the A&W options.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: And these are all verified on their own product websites. So then my question was, what if we were going to be making our own? What? Yes. How much better or worse would that be? And I don't think it's a surprise to me or to anyone listening that, of course, it looks better when you're making your own. And my caveat would be I still wouldn't look at this as a health food, but it can be a reasonable occasional thing for us to include in our diets. I don't have any misconception that anybody out there is going to be a plant based purist or a plant forward purist. And that's not the goal. Quite honestly, the goal is for us to do better. The goal is for us to keep, you know, you know, 80 percent of our diet whole and pure. And then within that 20 percent, we can play with the times that we want to eat out, the times that we're traveling or having some of these occasional comfort foods that we've enjoyed, but in a less harmful form. Right.

Kevin: And they can also be an amazing stepping stone. Like as you're moving towards more plant based, instead of grabbing like a meat burger at the grocery store for when you're going to throw them on the barbecue, you can grab, yes, it's ultra processed, but you can grab an impossible or beyond or something.

Michelle: Yeah.

Kevin: And it's still the lesser of two evils and it's still better or less harmful as to use your words.

Michelle: Yeah. And you can participate in the family or the neighborhood barbecue. You're not all of a sudden that that person that nobody wants to invite because.

Kevin: Oh, yeah.

Michelle: You know what I mean?

Kevin: Exactly.

Michelle: And or you want to have a gathering, you want to have you want to invite people over and you want to have options. Right. I mean, so, you know, I very much rely on these alternatives, not necessarily the burgers, but, you know, they're they're they're ground beef alternatives and things like that. I mean, I super enjoy a chili or a stew without anything in it except for, you know, vegetables and whole grains and beans and things like that. But I know that when I have guests over, there's just a certain comfort that they feel when they look at what I've made and they see what looks like ground beef in it. You know?

Kevin: Exactly. Exactly. And it and it does it does add a little bit of texture and it's it's the entire mouthfeel and everything. And again, as you're again, I tend to use these as a as a great stepping stone to sort of introduce like my family to.

Michelle: Transition foods.

Kevin: Healthier. Yeah, exactly. More healthier options.

Michelle: Yeah. Because, you know, it's not about making yourself the weirdo in the family. It's.

Kevin: Right. It's getting everyone on board and and not alienating anyone, but still moving them and having that discussion and moving them towards a healthier alternative.

Michelle: Exactly.

Kevin: So cooking at home. Tell us all about cooking at home and how amazing it is.

Michelle: So cooking at home. So what I did is with the help of AI, I asked to compare some recipes that might be kind of typical if you were going to make your own veggie burger or a homemade black bean burger, or if you were to use a Beyond Meat burger at home as opposed to Beyond Meat in a restaurant. And the results are the black bean burger was not a surprise to me is the best overall. I mean, you really can't beat making something that is going to be full of legumes, which is going to give you lower fat, higher protein, more like full of fiber. And the nicest thing, no matter what alternative or what recipe you choose, the biggest benefit is you can control the ingredients. You can control the sodium, you can control the fat. You can choose to use a more whole grain bun. So you can choose to not slather it with so many condiments. That's the one thing that I do run into if I do have a restaurant veggie burger is that I often have to tell them, put my condiments on the side because they put way too much sauce on it.

Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, they do. Maybe to hide the flavor, I don't know, or it's what people expect. I find the same thing.

Michelle: It's probably nice in their photography too when it's a nice drippy saucy thing. So it was absolutely, the homemade black bean burger was the lowest in carbs, around 350 carbs. It was the lowest in fat, only somewhere between five to 10 grams of fat. It was higher in carbohydrate, probably because of the legumes, right? Because legumes are the carbs. But it's again about quality. Like where is your carbohydrate coming from, right? Overall, your typical bean-based patty standard is going to be your best bang for your buck and the lowest in sodium, only like between 400 and 450 milligrams of sodium.

Kevin: Right, and as you said, you control all of these variables.

Michelle: Exactly, and I would say the same thing with your Beyond meatburger. I would, if sometimes the Beyond or the Impossible is the easiest to reach for in terms of convenience, and there's nothing wrong with that. But if I have the time to make a good black bean burger, it's going to be my preference in terms of taste and texture and enjoyment and everything. But there is, I've got to say, there is a little bit of an art to it because your black bean burger can be really well-formed. It can also be very sloppy if it doesn't quite, you don't quite get it to hang together.

Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've tried it a few times and it's failed more often than it's been a success.

Michelle: I encourage anyone, any noob that is wanting, maybe the burger is often one of the last things to go, kind of like cheese, right? Like the burger is sacred for people. And if you, I just encourage you to be a little bit experimental. There's never been a time in history where there weren't more options. Just like you said at the beginning, turn the label over and look at it. What's your favorite, Kevin? Do you like the black bean or?

Kevin: So, you know, so I, in our household, generally we are an impossible household simply because I live with two diehard carnivores that are resisting at every step of the way, in which case they are looking, whatever I cook, they are looking for the consistency, the texture, the, it needs to look like beef. It needs to look like a burger and the impossible, I'm not paid by impossible. And if they want to sponsor us, that's fine. But I have found more than beyond, I have found that the impossible is the most, in air quotes, realistic.

Michelle: Interesting. Is that based on cutting into it, Kevin, looking at it, or is that in terms of taste?

Kevin: Both.

Michelle: Okay.

Kevin: Now, I mean, I found, I, you know, I do call bullshit a little bit on this because if you throw lots of yummy condiments on, you know, pickles and lettuce and tomatoes and a nice Dijon mustard, and, you know, maybe a little, my son loves a chipotle, like I make my own chipotle sauce for him. You can't, I would define anyone, like you can't actually taste the meat in a burger. So if you have a veggie burger versus a meat burger, but it's loaded with good quality condiments, then you can't actually taste what the patty really tastes like and a nice bun and all that, you can't taste it. But from a look standpoint and an overall flavor profile, the impossible is what I've found that's closest to a beef burger.

Michelle: Well, interesting. So there is, so I did get the data on the impossible made at home. And honestly, like just looking at the patty, the impossible patty and the beyond patty, it wasn't a surprise to me that their nutrition facts are pretty closely mirrored. Like they, I think they're direct competitors.

Kevin: I think, yeah, they're very similar in that.

Michelle: I know their formulations are proprietary, but I also know because I've listened to the founders of those companies speak on different podcasts and things like that. And they are constantly rejigging their formulations. It's constant. So the impossible burger you had a year ago is probably not the same recipe as the one that you're having today. And a year or two from now, and I think that's a credit to the company that they're gonna continuously improve, continuously evolve. And that's just good business, right?

Kevin: Yeah. And I think technologies are improving in the, I think as there's more overall research in the world on plant-based food and plant-based alternatives and meat replacements, there's more technology like food technology, in which case in a year or two, there'll be some new discovery for a great new source of protein that's lower in salt or I don't know, whatever. In which case, yeah, they rejig their recipes, I'm sure on a regular basis.

Michelle: It's not just about what you're leaving out, but it's what are you adding to it? What else is it? I like to make sure that there's lots of beautiful, fresh leafy lettuce on my burger and nice scrumptious slices of tomato and onion. And maybe I put a little bit of avocado on there instead of mayonnaise. There's a lot of things you can add to your burger that are going to increase the nutritional value with other whole foods. So it's not all about the sauce.

Kevin: No, exactly. And not only are you increasing the nutrition, you're also increasing the flavor. I mean, in my household, the big condiment of choice is I make homemade caramelized onions.

Michelle: Oh, yummy.

Kevin: And so that adds a really delicious flavor. And again, with the homemade chipotle sauce that I make, that adds a real interesting flavor profile to it. And then the lettuce and the tomatoes and the pickles and all of the good. I'm really getting hungry now.

Michelle: I know. Okay, I know this keeps coming up, but I just want to say a little bit about the protein. Because it doesn't matter how many times we talk about it, how many times other plant-based experts talk about it, how many times other podcasts talk about it, people are still obsessed with protein. Like, how much protein? And I'm going to just urge the listeners, if you're going to make the choice of having a veggie burger because you want that enjoyment, you want that nostalgia, you want that convenience, you want to fit in at the neighborhood barbecue or whatever, I don't think protein should be your concern.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: Right. I mean, it's kind of neat for us to do this comparison and look at it. But they're all kind of like, they kind of hover around 11, 15. And then some of the more, you know, you can tell where they've really focused on their formulation. They're more like the 20, 21 grams of protein. But if you kind of go back, and I verified this, because as you know, I'm always very conscious to make sure, has anything changed about the recommendation? Because it can be very confusing when you look at the guidelines, and then it says, you know, something about what percentage of total calorie intake should be protein. Well, that there's still sources that say that, but I'm going to go harken back to the episode that we did on protein. The best guideline, I verified this, the most evidence-based, the best and most reliable guideline is to do it based on your weight. So 0.9 grams per kilogram on kind of average. So it's 0.8 grams per kilogram is what's in the guideline. But we know that if you're going to use plant-based sources, you have to account a little bit for absorption. And then the only exceptions to that would be like, that's kind of like the average person who's averagely mobile. And I'm going to say averagely active, not intensely active. They might have a fair amount of sedentary time. It's kind of the average person. But if you are exceptionally active, you work out a lot, you're an athlete, you're obviously going to need more. And also as we age, we get so that we lose muscle mass and things like that, as we age, particularly women in perimenopause and menopause. So then their evidence does say we do benefit from a little bit more protein. So then it might go up to instead of 0.9 grams per kilogram, maybe it goes up to 1.2 grams per kilogram. Or if you're exceptionally a super endurance athlete or something, it might be as much as two grams per kilogram. But at the end of the day, if you're in a healthy BMI, a healthy weight, still not a lot, right? Like just take a female on average 59 kilograms, which is about 130 pounds at 0.9 grams per kilogram. If I'm just sort of average in my activity and have a lot of sedentary time, that's only 53 grams of protein per day that I need to meet my body's requirements. And the lowest veggie burger is around like 11 to 12 grams of protein, like just in that one item. And the higher ones are around 20 grams of protein. I don't need to get half of my daily protein intake from one burger.

Kevin: From one, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Michelle: Right?

Kevin: Or even a fifth from some of the lower ones.

Michelle: Yeah. Like, so we don't need to be aiming because we, I'm going to say it again and again, we don't need as much protein as people think. Now on the male side, I don't need to know how much you weigh, Kevin.

Kevin: Yeah, please.

Michelle: The example that I'm using is like around 175 pounds. I just picked that as an average male weight, 79 and a half kilograms. If the, at the, you know, average male at the 0.9 grams per kilogram, so that's 71.5 grams of protein per day. Like the average people are so protein obsessed, especially when they're going to these burger joints and they're, they're, they're scanning the nutrition back. Cause I hear it. The reason I bring it up is because I hear it all the time. You know, which one of these has the most protein in their skin?

Kevin: Yeah. That's what people are picking apart is the one nutrient that they want to focus on.

Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. So I'm like, get over it. Don't worry about it. And this is where sometimes when I do this analysis, the reason why I fall into such a rabbit hole is because when I'm eating, I don't worry about those things. Like I worry about what the plate looks like, like in Canada's food guide. I'm going to have half of my plates going to be fruits and vegetables. One quarter needs to be good sources of protein, which includes legumes and tofu and tempeh and other things. And, and one quarter good quality grains. I'm worried about the composition and the proportions of my plate and how good a quality of my food is. And then when I go outside the lines and I want to have one of these burgers or I want to have a plant-based pizza or something else, I don't measure it because I know 80 to 90% of the time I'm eating really good stuff. I'm just enjoying what I eat, man.

Kevin: And you'll get there naturally just by having a balanced meal. You'll, you'll get to the, you know, whatever your particular, you know, 50 or 60 grams a day or whatever. So yeah, that, that makes perfect sense.

Michelle: Yeah. It shows me though, when you're looking at this, that the food scientists are worried about that number.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: Because people are starting to read labels and they are worried about it, right?

Kevin: Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Well, Michelle, thank you for all this amazing information about burgers and some of the alternatives that are available and how we can sort of get up that hill from crummy food to amazing food.

Michelle: Yeah, I knew it wasn't, I know it wasn't a super like mic drop topic, but like, it is something that people ask me and, you know, it's still really important to minimize ultra processed foods in your diet, but they're like, it's undeniable that if you're choosing more plant-based alternatives in that category, they are going to be a little bit better for you. There's not as, not as much problem with the saturated fat and things like that. And in that ultra processed food category, I don't know if I said this already, but it's really the diet sodas and the other sugary sodas and the really high saturated fat animal proteins that are the biggest problem.

Kevin: Right. And to tie it all back together to my initial story as well, it's important when something like the McVeggie comes along and it says, oh, we've got carrots and corn and broccoli and blah, blah, blah. It's still important to read the labels, to educate yourself, to see past the marketing and see sometimes it's a great choice, other times not so much, but you need that information to make the decision.

Michelle: Exactly. Don't let your health depend upon something sexy you saw on a label, like on the marketing side of the label.

Kevin: We've said it before and we'll say it again. Don't trust the marketers and this coming from a former marketer. So I'm allowed to say that.

Michelle: From a former marketing executive. We've got an insider here on Nutrition for Needs.

Kevin: Oh, we won't. That's a whole other podcast.

Michelle: He's a whistleblower.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly. So I have a visitor here.

Michelle: Hey, we've got a guest on the podcast, everyone.

Kevin: We have a guest on the podcast here.

Michelle: Do you want to tell the dad joke today?

Kevin: So, yes, it's a special dad joke guest. Five people were doing a race and they each had a bin number, one through five. And then they all lined up to get ready for the race. Then the person that starts the race says, three, two, one, go. And after he sees three people going, but he remembered there are five people, he sees four and five still at the starting line. He's like, why aren't you guys going? Because you only said three, two, one. No, five, four, three, two, one, go. And we thought that would be appropriate because you just ran a marathon this past weekend.

Michelle: Well, I didn't. That's a good one, Laurent. Oh, yes. So, oh, are you doing the other one?

Kevin: I thought I was doing the other one. Oh, you're doing it. Oh, he's totally taking over now.

Michelle: Okay. All right. I'd be looking for a new job, Kev.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly. Clearly, he's completely taking over. I don't know if I like this or not.

Michelle: What did the left eye say to the right eye? I don't know. What did the left eye say to the right eye? Just between us, something smells. That's a very good one.

Kevin: Are you doing a third one?

Michelle: Yeah, do that one.

Kevin: Oh, I need to do that one, but that's not a good one.

Michelle: That's because he doesn't want you to steal his thunder.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly. Okay, so now here's the crummy dad joke.

Michelle: What did the plate say to the fork?

Kevin: And now he's doing it too. Who's doing this? Wow, you're totally taking over. Okay, what did the plate say?

Michelle: Good night, Gracie.

Kevin: Yeah, good night, Gracie. What did the plate say to the fork? Put dinners on me. And he takes the punchline too. Okay, you need to leave my booth now.

Michelle: Goodbye. Goodbye. Bye, sweetie. Oh my gosh, that's funny.

Kevin: He just completely took over. I'm never, ever, ever inviting him back again. Did you see what he did? Holy cow.

Michelle: I thought it was awesome.

Kevin: So those were our dad jokes for the week. Well, great. Well, thank you, Michelle.

Michelle: Thank you, Kev.

Kevin: If anyone wants to get in touch with us, of course, you can reach out to us at n4noobs at gmail.com or connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com slash nutrition for noobs. We love to hear from you. And also don't forget to leave us a review on iTunes if you can, because that really helps other listeners find us and it helps us out a lot. So thank you for that. And until next time, eat your greens.

Michelle: And be real.

Kevin: This has been Nutrition for Noobs. We hope you're a bit more enlightened about how your fantastic and complicated body works with the food you put into it. If you have a question or a topic you'd like Michelle to discuss, drop us a line at n4noobs at gmail.com. That's the letter N, the number 4, n-o-o-b-s at gmail.com. If you haven't already, you can subscribe to the podcast on whatever your favourite platform might be. Also, please consider leaving a review or telling your friends. That's the best way to spread the word. We'll see you next time with another interesting topic. The views and opinions expressed on Nutrition for Noobs are those of the hosts. It is not intended to be a substitute for medical, nutritional or health advice. Listeners should seek a personal consultation with a qualified practitioner if they have any concerns or before commencing any actions mentioned in the podcast.