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Transcript

Kevin: Hey, Michelle, how's it going?

Michelle: I'm great, Kevin. How are you today?

Kevin: I'm doing really well. You know, after our discussion last time, I'm digging out some grains. I found, for the first time in a while, I used to use bulgur all the time, and then I kind of lost sight of it for a while, so now I got myself some bulgur, and I made a nice tabbouleh salad. It was so good, and so you inspired me to, you know, I didn't pop amaranth, but you've inspired me to dig out and start experimenting a little bit more with the grains that I don't normally use, because other than oats, that's kind of all I use on a day-to-day basis.

Michelle: That's so funny, because I did the same. I went back, I ran upstairs after we recorded, looked for the amaranth, and thought, oh, damn, I must have used all the amaranth, so then I dug around and I found the bulgur, and I did the same thing. I made a Mediterranean tabbouleh.

Kevin: It's so easy, because bulgur, if I recall, it was like one of the fastest to cook from your list.

Michelle: It cooks so fast.

Kevin: And it's so easy, and it adds a really delicious, it adds a bit of a crunch to it, like some mouthfeel to it, your teeth can sink into it, and a slight nutty undertone, but it goes with everything. And you put a nice red wine vinaigrette on it, and it's just chef's kiss delicious.

Michelle: I made a little no-oil dressing that had some lemon. I also squeezed some, like a clementine or one of those small little orange things. And I put some oregano in that. I put some garlic in that. I'm trying to remember what else. Oh, it's just a little hint of chili, just to give it a little wee bit of heat, and some soy. So I just kind of, I don't know, I just kind of made it up as I was going along.

Kevin: Yeah. That's the beauty about salads. You can just make a dressing and whatever floats your boat on that particular day.

Michelle: Oh, I put a little bit of maple syrup I did in there too, because I wanted to have some sweetness in there with it. And then when I added, that's how I ended up adding the citrus too, like other than the lemon, like the orange citrus, because I thought this just needs a little, it still needs a little bit of a punch of something.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. And it's all about balance. You know, a little bit of sweet, little bit of salty, little bit of sour, it's like comes together beautifully.

Michelle: Yeah. Okay.

Kevin: We're recording this right before dinner and I'm really, really hungry now. So this was a bad idea to talk about food, although it is a nutrition podcast. So I mean.

Michelle: I still have a bunch of that salad upstairs, because once you, the beauty of adding the bulgur with the greens and the tomatoes and the cucumbers and the onion and everything else in there. And also I had, do you have a can of chickpeas in yours? I put a can of chickpeas in mine.

Kevin: No, I didn't do chickpeas. No, I just went for a more traditional, the traditional tabbouleh salad.

Michelle: Oh, well, I guess mine was maybe I made it more Mediterranean. Yeah. It was so, but it was, it's huge once you have bulgur and chickpeas and all that other stuff in it. So it lasted like two, three days.

Kevin: And what's nice is I find over a few days, the bulgur absorbs more of the flavor and so it comes together more. So it's, it's nicer after a day or two, I find.

Michelle: I totally agree. I said that, I told that to my husband. I said, this is kind of one of those salads that I actually feel tastes better the second day.

Kevin: Yes. Yeah. Because the flavors kind of come together and they sit in the bulgur. So then whenever you take a bite of the bulgur, that's where a lot of the flavor lies from the dressing. And it's just delicious, delicious, delicious.

Michelle: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So I get to enjoy some more of that tonight. I don't know if you ate all yours, but.

Kevin: Yes. No, I, I, I, it disappeared very, very quickly in my household. So I'm going to have to get some more because I only had a little bit of bulgur left. So I'm gonna have to go out and get some more, but that's good. It's a good thing too.

Michelle: And you know what? People looking to do more plant forward in their diet or more plant based on a budget. Like this is one of the cheapest ways to do it. It's all, it's almost like you're balkoning your food with an incredibly cheap ingredient that is also very, very nutritionally dense, but also dense with protein and fiber. Totally.

Kevin: And yeah, it is. It's incredibly affordable.

Michelle: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah. Super cheap. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so that's good. So talking about grains, I think you've got a bit of a, we, we touched a little bit on this topic last time, but you wanted to talk a little bit more about grains and gluten. Is that correct?

Michelle: Yeah. I just wanted to cover the whole gluten thing with what, you know, which grains are gluten free and, and which ones aren't, because I know there's a lot of people in my experience and certainly when I had a restaurant, you know, this was a concern for a bunch of people. So I thought we can't, we can't talk grains without talking gluten.

Kevin: Yeah. Okay. So let's, let's talk gluten and grains and pseudo grains too. Don't forget the pseudo grains, those wannabe grains.

Michelle: Those, no, those cool hipster grains.

Kevin: The hipster grains. Yes. That's it. That's what they are.

Michelle: No offense to any hipsters out there.

Kevin: No, no. We love you.

Michelle: I love the hipsters.

Kevin: The hipsters are fun.

Michelle: So you have the actual botanical grains of the Proceae family. And some of them, I guess the most popular of that, of that group are, do contain gluten. The wheat, the barley, and the rye are all gluten containing grains. And when you're including wheat, you're including spelt, farro, durum, salmonella, so all of the wheat family. Okay. And then in, in, in barley, it also contains gluten. Rye also contains gluten, but in that family, oats are naturally gluten free, but sometimes like you, you should still really turn around the label and, and, you know, see, is it organic because it can be contaminated from other crops. Right.

Kevin: Well, I think that's for, for most products, if you're concerned about gluten, if it's been processed in a factory or in an industrial space that also processes wheat or something, then you can get the cross contamination. So that's always a concern, but it's good to know that oats by themselves should be gluten free.

Michelle: Exactly. And, and corn is another one that's naturally gluten free. Rice, including white rice, brown rice, and wild rice are all naturally gluten free. Millet, naturally gluten free, sorghum, naturally gluten free, and teff, naturally gluten free. I think teff is one that you, you see often, teff crackers, teff, all kinds of things. So it's, it's a nice choice. Now of the gluten free elsewhere would be basically all of them. All of the pseudo grains pretty much are naturally gluten free and are not an issue.

Kevin: Yay, pseudo greens.

Michelle: Yeah. So the quinoa, amaranth, buckwheat, which are not procye family are also gluten free. So gluten of course is a protein, right? So there's a lot of people, it's actually, I was surprised to learn a lot of people that are avoiding gluten because they hear it's bad for them or they think it's bad for them for some reason. Don't even know what gluten is.

Kevin: I have no idea what gluten is. So yeah, I don't avoid it, but I don't know what it is. So it doesn't surprise me.

Michelle: Yeah. They call it a, they call it a composite of storage protein depending upon the plant. It's in a different form, but you know, it's, it's of concern in particular to people that have an actual diagnosed gluten allergy. Some people may have a gluten sensitivity or they may just kind of feel that they do. They may make a, without being diagnosed, they may make a choice to avoid gluten because they feel better or they've read something that says that they should. I personally don't have anything against gluten because when I tell people that I eat primarily whole food plant-based, they'll proceed to tell me what's gluten free on their menu. And I'll be like, no, no, no, I'm good.

Kevin: Bring on the gluten. Not the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Michelle: Bring on the sourdough bread. I'm good with that. No issues.

Kevin: Good sourdough. Mmm.

Michelle: I will admit though, Kevin, that if I, when I was in Europe last month, um, to, to visit my daughter there, they do farm the wheat differently over there. And I don't feel the same bloated that, um, that I might get sometimes when I, when I have, you know, breads here.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: But, but I don't have an allergy and I'm not concerned about gluten. I'm more concerned about overall food quality. So that would be my guidance. Like when people say, do I need to avoid gluten? Do I don't? I go, well, if you, if you have an allergy and I would say like not a Google allergy, but an actual allergy, um, or you've been diagnosed through a gut biopsy and confirmed to have celiac disease, that's something that's very, very serious. Um, we came across that a lot in the restaurant. I even know a couple, couple of people that I work with that have it. And you know, the celiac is very different than, than feeling unwell, like than feeling like a full tummy, you actually get severely, severely unwell. And it doesn't even, it's not from eating it. It can be the tiniest, most minuscule little particle that you came in contact with that contained gluten. It's a, a very, the most severest form of gluten allergy. And, uh, it's, it's, it's, uh, especially when it's children. My daughter had a childhood friend. I think your son has a childhood friend as well. And you know, it's, you have to really, really be careful because you don't want the cute little guys to, to feel unwell.

Kevin: Yeah. I do know that celiac is, is it just in terms of the risk, it's similar to peanut allergies where, you know, even if you have peanuts and then you touch a door handle and then someone with a peanut allergy touch it. So similar with celiac, even if you cook on the same frying pan as had wheat and you cook something that is gluten free, if there's a tiny bit of gluten from that previous, uh, if it wasn't completely washed and, and sterilized, then someone with celiac can have a reaction and they go to hospital like it, it, it truly is.

Michelle: It is. And they, they, they get horrible diarrhea and, and, and like really painful cramps. I know we had somebody in, back when I had the tea room and we were always upfront as any restaurant should be that, you know, unless you're a hundred percent gluten free facility, which is really difficult to do if you're a tea room, cause you're dealing with scones and all kinds of things.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly.

Michelle: I would always say, well, you know, we, we can do the very best that we can, but we can never guarantee it. And we were so careful. We took the scones out separately. We cleaned all the surfaces, we cleaned, we recleaned all the utensils. We re, um, you know, specially cleaned teapots for this person and everything was going well until they asked for sugar in their tea. So then we brought them a sugar bowl, but didn't occur to my staff and I didn't occur to me to instruct my staff carefully around the sugar bowl, to use a brand new sugar bowl and wash the surface and change out everything. And somebody had previously touched the sugar bowl that had had a conventional scone. And as soon as this person touched that sugar bowl, they got sick. They were fine until they touched the sugar. So like, that's how sensitive a true celiac is.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. It makes no sense. It's awful.

Michelle: So, so there is a, there is a difference. And I'm, again, I'm not a doctor and I'm not going to diagnose anybody or pretend that I can, but I just know from that experience, there was a big difference between a severe gluten allergy and a celiac disease. And um, you know, and you know, the thing is like those who have had the gut biopsy gone through that whole diagnosis process, they know this and they know what to do. They've been well-educated by their doctor and their dietitian. And they do all of those safe preparation procedures at home. But I also know the celiac people in my experience, they also want to live in the real world and they want to go out to these places and have these experiences. And they, you know, the adults accept that there is a, they're taking a risk if they make that choice. So I think if you, if you don't have that reaction and you've suspected that you have celiac, then, then go, go get diagnosed, but don't assume because it's not necessarily the same experience as having a gluten sensitivity or a gluten allergy. Exactly.

Kevin: Exactly.

Michelle: Yeah. It's a hot topic. I know. But, uh, and it's, and it's too bad for the folks that have it, but, um, I'll, I'll say it again. I don't believe personally in my experience as a nutritionist that everybody needs to avoid gluten. And, and actually it's not, we, we, we think that farming has a lot to do with it, with the glyphosate that's, um, that's used in, um, commercial agriculture has a lot more to do with it than the, than the gluten is almost like a, you know, a collateral damage.

Kevin: But just to clarify though, just to, just to set the, set the tone, there's nothing wrong with being gluten free. Like gluten isn't a required, uh, like one of the building blocks of protein cells or anything. So there's nothing wrong with being gluten free if you choose to be.

Michelle: No, the, the only concern I would have is if a person is as a accidental, uh, byproduct of making that choice, they're calorie restricting because you shouldn't calorie restrict and you shouldn't carb restrict because as you know, we're carbohydrate burning organisms, our mitochondria, our brain and our cell, our very cells depend upon glucose for fuel as our primary and preferred source of fuel. So, um, carbohydrates are not inherently bad and gluten is not inherently bad, but if you prefer to not have it, there's nothing wrong with that. There's never been an easier time in history to find good tasting or decent tasting gluten free products.

Kevin: Absolutely. And also more and more restaurants are being completely gluten free so that they are a hundred percent celiac safe.

Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. And that's nice that we can do that now.

Kevin: Yeah, no, absolutely.

Michelle: An example, Teff crackers are absolutely delicious.

Kevin: And they're very easy to, to get your hands on and yeah, yeah, yeah, no. So it's, it's very good from that standpoint. So what I'm hearing from you is, so there's nothing wrong with cutting out gluten at all. Just make sure that if you're not eating bread or you're not eating, you know, some of the wheat products, make sure you're replacing those carbohydrates with legumes or potatoes or whatever, like something to, to make sure you're getting the calories that your body needs. Okay. That makes sense.

Michelle: Vegetables, fruits. Yeah. Yeah. Like don't, don't, don't feel like you're going to like, you know, I've seen, I've seen people like take the burger off the bun and just eat the burger and leave the bun and that's fine, but just make sure that you're actually getting a sufficient caloric intake during the day to meet the needs of your body's regular processes and any energy expenditure demands that you're making on it. And that you're also getting nutrient density. Actually, you know what, if, if you're replacing whatever you would have had in bread or other gluten containing products and you're filling it up with fruits and vegetables and legumes and grains, like awesome.

Kevin: Yeah, no, exactly.

Michelle: You're probably healthier than most people.

Kevin: For sure.

Michelle: I know that, I know that since I like started to eat primarily whole, I eat way less bread than I used to have. Like I, I used to have like toast all the time and always a sandwich packed for lunch and, and I, I eat way more vegetables, way more salad, way more other things since I stopped doing that. And I don't even really crave it that much anymore.

Kevin: Well, I think it's, I think it's a lot to do with awareness because if you're not thinking about it, then bread is super, super simple. Like it's easy. It, it, it basically, as my mother used to say, it fills the hole. Like it makes you, it fills your hunger, it satisfies you and all that. But then like thinking back to our last episode, when you're talking about the hierarchy, bread was, you know, white flour was pretty darn low in that hierarchy. In which case the awareness of, well, I could do better and if I try to go up that hierarchy, maybe I'll be eating more whole grains, which don't necessarily involve bread, but other forms of the grain. So it's awareness that, that sort of leads you away from some of these, you know, to, to other alternatives, I think.

Michelle: Yeah. And, and conventional breads can be, you know, notorious for hiding a myriad of other unpronounceable ingredients. So it does.

Kevin: Tons of sugar. Like breads are so sweet when you look at their ingredients, I find. Unless you get a really good artisanal, like home, you know, small bakery or something.

Michelle: That's what I was going to say. Like it's super fun for, you know, if, if you are going to consume less conventional bread and try to eat more whole and eat more actual grain, and then you do want to have that bread to go with a really nice pasta or something like that. It's super fun to go to a bakery and get them to slice it and, and there's nothing more delicious. I mean, it does have, it doesn't have the shelf stability. Ooh, but you know what? Just on the gluten topic, you know, what's a really fun hack. And we, we, we did this for a long time with certain customers. Did you know that sourdough bread, if it's a really true, well-made sourdough, that that yeast starter is different, obviously, than the other yeast that you use to make conventional bread, it actually pre-digests a bunch of the gluten.

Kevin: Really?

Michelle: So often people who are, you know, not gluten allergic, but a gluten sensitive, don't have any issue having sourdough bread because we used to, we used to make these sandwiches on the menu and we always do sourdough bread. And this is before we brought, like, it took me a long time to find a gluten-free bread that I would actually put on my menu because I'm very, very, I'm very picky. I never, never was a fan of just ticking the gluten-free box.

Kevin: Right. Do you want something that tastes good?

Michelle: Exactly. I have a quality standard. It's just who I am. So for the longest time, we just said, no, we don't. You have to choose another menu item. But I used to say, well, you know, you might do okay with the sourdough because sourdough, this sourdough is a, is a well-made sourdough and it will, it will have pre-digested the gluten that the yeast will have. And I never, ever had a customer that made that choice with that information.

Kevin: Have an issue.

Michelle: They all said, wow, yeah, no, that was great. And they came back and ordered it again and again.

Kevin: Oh, that's interesting. I didn't know that. Wow.

Michelle: Yeah, that's a nice little hack.

Kevin: And, and generally sourdough is the, not that I'm, I'm not particularly concerned about gluten at all, but sourdough is the one type of bread. When I buy bread, there's one particular bakery close to us that has a killer sourdough. And that's what we always buy. So it's kind of good to know that.

Michelle: I prefer it. Honestly, there's that little, I don't know how, how you describe that little taste that's unique to sourdough. It's a little tang or?

Kevin: Well, it's, it's a sour, it, it, it's, it's like a sour, like it's not yeasty, but there's a sour undertone to it.

Michelle: Yeah. And it smells just so fresh.

Kevin: Oh, fresh. Yes. Yes.

Michelle: Awesome.

Kevin: It's, oh, again, I'm getting hungry. We, we, we got to stop recording right before dinner. That's a bad move, honestly. Why do you do this to me? We're talking about food again.

Michelle: Because it's this proximity to your mealtime, you'll make a really good choice.

Kevin: I always make good choices. No, I don't always make good choices. I will try to make a good choice. I try my best. Okay. Well, thank you, Michelle. This has been very interesting to learn all about gluten and, and what is, what grains contain gluten and what pseudo grains don't contain gluten and all that.

Michelle: Everything you wanted to know about grains, but were afraid to ask.

Kevin: Exactly. And some things maybe you didn't care to know, but now you do. We tick all the boxes here.

Michelle: We do. We're fun like that too.

Kevin: We are. Yes.

Michelle: Speaking of fun and gluten, I picked out a joke for you today.

Kevin: Oh, did you? Oh, I'm so excited. Amazing.

Michelle: Yay.

Kevin: Thank you. I love, I hope it's a bad dad joke.

Michelle: Okay. Kevin. Have you heard all about the top secret gluten-free bakery?

Kevin: No, I haven't.

Michelle: I didn't think so because it's on a knead to dough basis.

Kevin: Oh, that's a good one.

Michelle: I thought that's when your son would like.

Kevin: A knead to dough basis. Oh, I love a good wordplay pun.

Michelle: Okay. Top that.

Kevin: Okay. I've got a really stupid one that has nothing to do with gluten. It's totally off topic, but it's just stupid.

Michelle: Okay. Bring it on.

Kevin: How many apples grow on a tree?

Michelle: I don't know, Kevin, how many apples grow in the tree?

Kevin: All of them, silly.

Michelle: Okay. Wait a minute. So then I've got.

Kevin: Oh, do you have another one? Are we having a dad joke off? Cause I've got another one too, if you want.

Michelle: Okay. You do yours. What did the doctor advise his gluten-free patient to do?

Kevin: I don't know. What did the doctor advise his gluten-free patient to do?

Michelle: Get bread rest. A real laugh or you just do it for me.

Kevin: Don't make fun of my laugh. Don't make fun of my laugh.

Michelle: Oh, come on. If anybody wants to make fun of anybody's laugh, you can make fun of mine. Everybody else always been telling me my whole life. I could tell it was you coming because of your laugh.

Kevin: I love your laugh. You've got the best laugh. Don't you remember in one episode, way back when I did a super cut of your laugh.

Michelle: I did and you didn't tell me about it. I had to discover it.

Kevin: You just discovered it one day.

Michelle: And I was like, Oh no, what is he done?

Kevin: Michelle laughing for a full minute. I loved it. It was my favorite episode. Okay. So one more, one more. Since we're doing the dueling jokes, do you want to hear a joke about paper?

Michelle: Sure.

Kevin: Nah, nah, nevermind. It's terrible. Terrible.

Michelle: I got it. I got it.

Kevin: You got it. You got it.

Michelle: You're a card not to be dealt with.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Okay. Well, thank you for joining us on dad jokes for noobs.

Michelle: There we go.

Kevin: And if you want to get in touch with us, you can email us at n the number four noobs at gmail.com or reach out on Facebook at facebook.com slash nutrition for noobs.

Michelle: Yeah. I'd like to see more people get engaged on Facebook.

Kevin: Yes. Ask us questions. Give us your own dad jokes. Come on. You've got to have your own dad jokes out there in the noobosphere. Please share us your dad jokes and any stories or any ideas or anything like that.

Michelle: Any questions?

Kevin: Yes. Yeah. So we can grill Michelle, put her on the spot or you can ask me questions and I'll make a fool of myself.

Michelle: You know, that's okay too. Stop it.

Kevin: That's okay.

Michelle: No.

Kevin: And so until next time, eat your greens and be real. This has been nutrition for noobs. We hope you're a bit more enlightened about how your fantastic and complicated body works with the food you put into it. If you have a question or a topic you'd like Michelle to discuss, drop us a line at n4noobs at gmail.com. That's the letter N the number four N O O B S at gmail.com. If you haven't already, you can subscribe to the podcast on whatever your favorite platform might be. Also, please consider leaving a review or telling your friends. That's the best way to spread the word. We'll see you next time with another interesting topic. The views and opinions expressed on nutrition for noobs are those of the hosts. It is not intended to be a substitute for medical, nutritional, or health advice. Listeners should seek a personal consultation with a qualified practitioner if they have any concerns or before commencing any actions mentioned in the podcast. And so until next time, eat your greens and be real. Be real, everyone.

Michelle: Well, some, well, almost everyone.

Kevin: Some people aren't so real. No, but that's your line. Be real, everyone.

Michelle: I sometimes say be real and sometimes I say be real, everyone.

Kevin: Do you? Oh, I thought you always said be real, everyone.

Michelle: I mix it up.

Kevin: Oh, you mix it up. I never noticed. I just, I just automatically put in the everyone, I guess, because I want to be included in that.

Michelle: Be real, everyone.

Kevin: Be real, everyone.

Michelle: That's better.

Kevin: Everyone be real. Except for those of you who I don't want to be real. Almost everyone be real. A few of you can be fake.

Michelle: If you're fake, you're dead to me.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly. Don't be fake.

Michelle: Yeah, exactly. Especially not your food.

Kevin: No. Real food.

Michelle: What is wrong with us today? I don't know.